Tarva wants to use some of our down time to share backgrounds between the group members and the two caravan guards that are now working with us.
  Here's what Tarva, in broad terms, does, and does not, tell Glyndon and Darred.

  What she does talk about.
  Tarva is from a different world. She was gated into this one by some unknown means.  Sages have told her that getting home will be very difficult due to the mystic reverberations from the intense magic used in the wars a few years ago.
  Yes, she does have an unusual skin coloring, one that nobody else among her family or ancestors seems to have had.   In fact, she's never seen anyone with similar skin coloring.  Darred comes closer than most: where is he from?  Does anyone there have coloring like hers?
  And yes, she's very proud of her voice and singing qualities.  Hopefully, when the need to be quiet and unobtrusive has passed, she'll be able to demonstrate it to them.  But really, Taizu is the musician in the group: they need to hear him play his flute to appreciate really excellent music.
  Taizu is indeed her boyfriend.  Even if, and even when, he's a nasty taskmaster who is making her learn fractions. (This with a sticking out of the tongue at Taizu;-)
  That she is a Faith Healer: that she can cure wounds to a fair extent (sixteen points) once a day, and sometimes also cure disease.
  That she's mostly a fighter, but is also becoming a bard, and is Taizu's apprentice, which is why he gets to make her do fractions, bleah.

  She thinks life is too short to be all serious about, and loves jokes and harmless pranks; and watching (perhaps helping) self-righteous stuffed-shirt hypocrites get taken down a peg.  She thinks helping that happen, through a well-written song, ought to be a bard's duty.  [That's a warning (as is her treating her bardic master with less than full respect) that her nature is at the chaotic end of neutral.]
  That even though she's a fighter, she devotes a lot of her time to the healing arts: not just as a Faith Healer, but also by being very strong in the healing skills.
  And in fights she attempts to defend team-mates who are in trouble, often trying to convince an opponent to strike at her instead.
  Being from another world, she worships a Deity not known here: Dioncecht, the God of Healing.  She believes that He and Pelor would be close associates, were they to ever meet; so she dedicates all her healing to Pelor, and offers each temple we reach the use of her skills and Faith Healing.
  Perhaps as a consequence of this dichotomy between fighting and healing, she prefers (although not with giants) to try and find a peaceful solution to disagreements. Accordingly she has been studying Diplomacy, and is, perhaps, beginning to become good at that.
  But that music is what she loves most of all, as she and Taizu will show them, just as soon as that's safe to do.

  And the second night together, she announces to the entire group that she can now cast Cure Light Wounds and Identify, whenever anyone needs either of those.

  The third night (i.e., after the run), after HR's dramatic saving of Tarva's life, she fills the newcomers in on the following:
    That Heart's Reach is more than just a good sword -- is self-aware, could talk in her home world, is capable of infrequent but major healing efforts, and is personally and jealously devoted to Tarva.  Also, all the caveats and warnings which Fflymwyth  imparted about Heart's Reach, and about anyone else trying to use him.

  What she does NOT talk about, on this short an acquaintance (but what she will share once these people have joined the group):
  That she is part fey. {Too many people have negative reactions to fey, or negative reactions to 'half-breeds' -- so she never mentions it except among friends.}
  That she's trying to find a gate to return to Feyland. {Especially as this isn't so true as it once was.}
  That her medallion is a Portable Gate gift from her very powerful fey mage 'aunt'.  {Hard to explain that without starting with the other two items.}
  That she grew up in a brothal and earned her living there for several years.  {That's only shared with close companions -- she's not ashamed of it, but she runs into enough prejudice against it that it certainly isn't something she wants widely known, or to become anyone's basis for a first impression of her.  Everyone in the group, plus Lothar, Carrica, and Beldwyn, do know this.  I'm sure Glyndon and Darred will, eventually, but even joining the group won't be an automatic reason for Tarva to share this.}



Arvee says:
I think we should discuss the battles in the dining hall. Between the puppies and the giant battles, they were the most dangerous battles (The hydra was dangerous, but over quickly). We definitely had the most chances to be killed during this battle, and I remember commenting on how difficult a battle the puppy scrum was during the session.

Here are some of my thoughts:
1. Against a single enemy, we are extremely effective. Once this number starts to grow, it becomes more difficult. The fact of the matter is, in all reality, we really only have one or two front liners while the rest are more deadly in support as casters or archers.
2. We need more effective ways of communicating. At least once Ahb and I didn't know what was going on (And partially it's because Arvee is, well, a little dense), and so it took an extra round for us to return to the fray.
3. Also, frankly, making the whole party invisible didn't really do too well. It was a great idea, but maybe we should have said don't do anything for 3 rounds, then go to town.



Ahb replies to Arvee:
I agree - we could have worked the whole chain of fools thing better.  We definitely should have had a minimum wait time for everyone to get into position before attacking.  All I can say is we seem to learn by doing.  Next time we'll know better.

Darred responds to Tarva's wanting to share backgrounds:
You find Darred to be pretty much all business.  He is focued on his duties and responsibilites period.  He is a no-nonsense person who respects leadership and believes in decisiveness and chain of command.  As you may have already noted his is used to giving orders and following orders.  He can be a bit abrasive and brusque, but that is due to his tendency to cut to the chase, make a decision, and move on in a military fashion.
In off hours, he is quiet, unobtrusive, and not very talkative.  He will not initiate any conversations with a purpose of getting to know others.  He will tend to spend his non-combat time alone or with Glendon or Ahb.  If Ahb askes Darred about his training, his abilities or his responsibilities, he will answer her without hesitation.  The rest of the group he still views as need-to-know.
If approached for conversation and getting to know you stuff, he will politely listen, but will not volunteer much information about
himself.  He will turn the focus of the conversation back on the other party by asking questions abou them.
You will have more luck talking with Darred about strategy, tatics and resources than about personal history.
He will tell you that he and Glendon have a responsibility to the caravan they were guarding and that they intend to fulfill that responsibility.

Tarva replies to Arvee's tactical discussion:
    First, she thinks Arvee is completely right about the need to discuss the battles and what we can do to be better in the future.  She hopes that Rowan, from ranger experience helping to guard borders, will also have advice for us.  And (impishly) her Lord and Master should have a much better idea than herself as to what us bards can do.  If our military allies have any practical suggestions (impractical ones, such as all of us becoming soldiers and approaching each encounter in a disciplined nmaner, will be, at best, laughted at).  Hopefully Ahb will be able to take everyone's experiences, thoughts, and opinions, and mold them into an improved policy.

    Tarva disagrees (she and Arvee always seem to on this subject) about the usefulness of the invisibility.  She thinks the encounter with two alert giants in the foyer would have gone much worse had they known we were coming. But she is in full agreement that we needed either a way to communicate, or else a plan which compensated for a temporary lack of communication.  "Wait three rounds" would certainly have been better than what we had; but maybe we can do even better than that.
    During that fight Tarva did nothing other than watch a hallway; she never actually saw either giant until after both were dead.  Thereafter she stayed invisible, to act as a strategic reserve, because something she'd read had hinted that having a reserve was a good idea.  [As part of her studies in Diplomacy, she'd been instructed a little on what happens when Diplomacy fails.  There was a famous general, "Claws" Wicks, who pronounced that "wars were an extension of diplomacy" and "politics is the womb from which wars are born".  So she'd also had to study wars, very briefly, and had assorbed some of the concepts -- like keeping a reserve -- as being useful to her, personally.]
    But while keeping a reserve -- to deal with, or slow down, or at least surprise and distract a second force of baddies showing up in the middle of our fighting the first -- would probably be a good idea (whether or not said reserve was invisible), having it be Tarva probably was and is not the best choice.
    Arvee touched on this:  We have three members (four before Beldwyn left) who are good at dealing damage from a distance, and are perhaps a little too fragile (as compared to Arvee) for engaging in melee.  [Actually, Arvee may well believe that Tarva fits into this category as well...] Which is great, and very useful, so long as the bad guys also agree to keep their distance.  But to make them keep that distance, there need to be front-line combatants who won't let the bad guys run up to the range weapon and spell users.  When there is only one monster, Arvee rightly points out, he can provide that coverage all by himself -- although someone else to help flank it surely isn't a bad idea.  If there are two of them, then Tarva can and will do her best to emulate Arvee and stop the second's advancement.  More than two (unless there is terrain to help -- like a narrow hallway) and some are going to get by.
    Perhaps a quick rule of thumb would be based on how many monsters there are, coupled with how many can get involved in melee at once, and set up an engagement order: Arvee-1, Tarva-2, ???-3, ???-4, and finally ???-5 for who fights toe to toe and who does range assistance.  Tarva would recommend that Ahb be ???-5, so she can also -- by virtue of _not_ being tied down by melee -- run up to any of the other four and provide some on-the-spot healing.  Tarva would also recommend Rowan-3 and Taizu-4, mostly due to their relative melee and magic strengths.

    Magic.  Tarva is very new to this, and has very little to suggest on how best to plan for using it.  She's better off with Bardic music effects, which seem to fit so well it's almost as if she's remembering something forgotten, not learning something new.  So she's going to leave the suggestions / recommendations about magic planning to others.  But for the bardic music she does have some thoughts, which of course Taizu can overrule her on.
    And really, if Ahb (or anyone else) is going to start creating a tactical plan for the group, they're going to need to know what everyone's strengths are.  So here are Tarva's:
    Some bardic music effects just are; some require continual singing (or playing); some are skill dependent for how well they work.
    With every iota of respect (and adoration) for Taizu's flute playing, Tarva doubts that he wants to be doing that in the middle of a fight.  And with all due modesty (and not a crumb more;-) she's a much better singer than Taizu. Currently she has ten ranks in singing, along with other plusses to give her a +17 Skill Modifier.  Next level she'll
have 12 ranks, and a +19.
    There is a bardic ability called Countersong: anyone attacked sonically can use the bard's performance check in place of their own normal (usually Will) save.  Tarva suggests that it would be better for her to sing a Countersong, when such would be useful, and leave Taizu free to do other bardic, or magic, or whatever.  She hopes that very soon she'll learn when it's appropriate to use Countersong, and not make Taizu waste time telling her to start it.
    Inspire Courage is the most common bardic ability Taizu has used in past encounters.  It isn't skill-based, but Tarva has noticed that Taizu sometimes doesn't start singing  it immediately, or interrupts himself in the middle of a fight, so that he can cast other magic.  Probably the two of us should work out a plan, or a pre-arranged signal, such that Tarva would know Taizu wants her to sing Inspire Courage, while he concentrates on his other abilities.
    Because Tarva has ten ranks in singing, she can try to cast Suggestion on a single creature as a bardic ability. She's sure that Taizu, and perhaps also the other magic users in the group, can help her come up with (she grins) suggestions for Suggestions, along with hints on when it would be most useful to try this.  Of course, Taizu can probably do this also, so maybe she can just learn by watching -- like a good apprentice should (sly wink at Taizu).
    An opportunity for it probably won't come up during a fight, so this is more of a tangent, but another bardic ability Tarva has is to Inspire Competence: singing an encouraging song to improve someone else's skill modifier by +2.  Everyone should keep that in mind, and ask her or Taizu for help whenever that would be useful.
    Not yet, but at next level, Tarva will be able to use the bardic ability Inspire Greatness, but only on a single other member of the group (she'll have to be a lot higher before she can cast it on two people).   In brief, this provides temporary hit die, plusses to hit, some saving throw help.  If nothing else, it could be used to help someone who is severely hurt, that Ahb can't get to for some reason.  Tarva will remind everyone of this again, once she does have the ability.

    As she implied earlier, Tarva is about as good with her bow as she is with Heart's Reach.  Of course, HR has some other, additional abilities - the most important one for planning tactics being that he can sometimes provide healing for Tarva, even in the middle of an encounter.  As was so brilliantly demonstrated when Tarva tried to take on a giant all by herself.  Not that she wants to count on HR's help, especially when he risks damaging himself to provide that assistance, but it does give her a bit of an edge: makes her that much more reasonable a person to put on the front line.
    And, as a side note, one of the things Tarva has learned from fighting these giants is: making herself harder to hit, while making it harder for her to hit them, just slows down how quickly they can hurt her, while giving them a much longer time in which to attempt that hurting.  She won't be trying that maneuver again soon (and wishes Expertise worked in both directions).

    Other observations from the fights.
    We should have (and Tarva is kicking herself for not thinking of this beforehand) shared around the healing potions so as to make sure that everyone had at least one.
    Tarva isn't going into any place where she can't see anymore.  If necessary, she'll give everyone else an agreed upon lead time -- somewhere between thirty seconds and five minutes -- then come in by herself with a light source.

    Other items for consideration:
    a) scouting ahead;
    b) watching our rear;
    c) spell reserves;
    d) spells vs. potions [i.e., renewable vs non-renewable];
   e) light sources for use by low-light vision people and Tarva.



Arvee answers Tarva:
Can I just point out, probably for the  35th time, that Arvee spent most of  his years on the border doing guard duty.



And Tarva responds:
    Oh, Arvee, Tarva didn't mean that as a slur on you. She knows that you are by far the best fighter here.  Tarva is extremly appreciative (and a little envious) of how easily you demolish opponents.  She only tried that fighting defensively thing because you were using it so effectively [*]: she's constantly trying to learn how to be a better fighter from watching you.
    Tarva doens't know if she'd have had the courage to attack the hydra, or take on a giant singlehandedly, without your example to follow.
    Tarva always wants to hear your advice and opinions -- even when, like for invisibility, she doesn't end up agreeing with them.  She thought that, because you had brought the subject up, you would already be willing -- hopefully eager -- to share your experiences and advice with the group.  So Tarva was trying to engage the others: get them involved also in this discussion she feels is crucial to our staying alive.

{*] And discovered that she simply isn't a good enough fighter to be both defensive and aggressive simultaneously; but that's her shortcoming.

PS. I'm glad someone appreciated "Claws" Wicks.  Born to a lowly candlemaker, the legondary Dimlight Wicks fought his way out of the slums (and his given name) and into the army with his trademark infighting weapon: metal tines srapped to the backs of his wrists.  After spending much too long as a footsoldier, his bravery and aggression caught the attention of a commanding officer and he was given the first of a rapid series of promotions.  His uncanny ability to spot the soft underbelly of any opposing force, and unerringly gut it, have over the interposing two centuries turned his memoirs into required reading for military planners across most of the Flanaess.
  I suspect Tarva was reading a very basic summary -- perhaps something similar to Pultarch's "Lives" -- that only devoted a few pages to General Claws.



To which Arvee expounded:
Tarva, I think you went a little over board with the defensiveness. You stopped being effective, and ended up on the wrong end of our DM's ability to get 20s. You have the Expertise feat, which I think is really not meant to be used as the same time as the fighting defensive Arvee does (Arvee being too stupid to qualify). The expertise gives you up to a tradeoff of 5 for the same bonus, while fighting defensively costs you 4 for a bonus of 2.... Mind you Arvee gets a +4 to AC versus giant. Arvee selected his feats to be the deadliest possible. With his strength, he has a fairly outrageous to hit (During the battle it was +17/+12 (8th level fighter, +5 to hit bonus strength, +3 scythe, +1 weapon focus), so when battling the giants who had an AC of something like 21 or 22, I had no problem trading hit chance for armor class. You, due to how your character is constructed, probably do not have near this bonus, and taking a total of -9 to hit during those attacks meant you effectively had to hit an Armor class of 30 on every roll, something that I didn't start hitting regularly till I got the +3 scythe.

Also, Arvee will have no problem letting Tarva know that emulating him is not the greatest of ideas. Once again, with the exception of Armor, Arvee is an "Arvee of One", designed to deal a massive amount of damage while more importantly, taking the massive amount of damage instead of the party. As a dwarf with a +5/level bonus to hit points, Arvee can take the most amount of damage, with I think Ahb the next closest.

Arvee doesn't have the wisdom, intelligence, or lack of ego to allow something to intimidate him, and the minute I allow that to happen, I open up the rest of the party to a world of hurt. Even before I had decided to stick it out with they hydra, I had decided to stick it out at least one round to give everyone else a bigger headstart. I realize that as a dwarf I am a little slower than, well, everything else we have fought (and something I am going to fix as soon as possible now that I have a weapon of mass destruction), but I feel my role in combat is to take in most of the damage while inflicting enough with everyone else that we take it down before it takes me down (And so far I have been extremely effective in not dying quicker than the baddies).

I've sort of wondered how in depth we can get into tactics until Darred and Glendon have felt out how they will fit in the group. From a magic perspective, we are a lot less powerful than before. Beldwyn had gotten to the point where I think she had gotten 4th level spells, and plenty of cool 3rd level spells, and with her level could do some pretty impressive damage. Ahb was a little hamstrung by having to heal me in her magic. And honestly, I don't know where we are with Glendon. I have to say though, the Ahb's cold resistance was brilliant as was Taizu's blur. Creatively, I think Ahb does very well in spell selection, and I think Taizu does very well too.

From the combat perspective, Arvee and Rowan are easily the most dangerous close in fighters, and Ahb and Tarva are close behind. Taizu is I think our most dangerous archer, although Rowan isn't so bad either. I think we have seen that Darred and Glendon are good support characters, and due to Ahb's nature she needs to be mobile.

Something we should discuss is healing in combat. I felt there was a scary moment during combat when Taizu healed Darred back to life and he had very few hit points and a Giant standing over him. I think in these cases it may be better to stabilize the character instead of bringing them back up to where they could get stomped completely dead.



Rowan contributed to the tactics discussion:
I think I've come to the conclusion that I am more effective using my bow against Giants than my sword.  At 8th level I get +14 to my first attack with my bow, and +13 to my first attack with my sword. With Point Blank Shot that goes up to +15 with my bow. My sword does do 2 additional points of damage (i.e. +5 with my sword vs. +3 with my bow), but Point Blank Shot gives me an additional bonus with my bow (bringing it to +4). I think it is more important to hit and take the -1 to damage than to get the additional damage but take the risk of missing. Add to all this the fact that practically every time I come close to Giants they kick my ass (and I usually end up having to retreat), I think my bow is the better choice (assuming I can get something in between me and the Giant to prevent him from charging).

That being said, our plan to flank the Giant was effective in our first battle. Does coming up behind the Giant always provoke an attack of opportunity?  What if I were invisible? One possibility is for Arvee, Rowan and Taizu to approach together. Then Taizu can shatter the Giant's axe, and Arvee and Rowan can flank the Giant. Or Arvee, Rowan and Tarva can move in together, that way if either Rowan or Tarva has to retreat, the other can be there to take up the flanking position.

Of course this all only works against a single enemy.  We should probably have some plan for how to divide our resources against multiple enemies. A lot of this would depend on positioning once the fight begins (i.e. where the enemies are in relation to where we are standing), but it couldn't hurt to have a number of scenarios mapped out.

I hope this made sense and didn't just confuse the issue further.



  Tarva comes to Ahb during the afternoon after one of the days of fighting the giants, and explains that she's been having Arvee teach her some simple Dwarven, in preparation for Tarva actually finding an instructor and learning the language.  But after hearing Arvee ask, in dwarven, what a giant he was fighting 'wanted for tea?' Tarva is concerned that what she is being taught might have very little relationship to actual Dwarven.
  Would Ahb mind going over the few phrases Tarva has been taught, and making sure that Tarva understands them correctly?

  Beyond that, Tarva also wants to learn Gnome, again when we reach a town and can find instructors and take training.  But until then, would Ahb be willing to teach Tarva some rudimentary Gnome phrases?

  Somewhat later, Tarva finds a moment with Taizu and Rowan in which to announce that she is also planning to learn Elven (again when we reach somewhere with instructors), and would they help her along with some simple phrases until then?
  [And if there's a sly wink at Taizu, well, that's only to be expected, yes?]




Tarva responds to Rowan's comments on tactics:
   Rowan has pointed out that she is better -- and feels noticably safer -- standing back and using her bow.
   Tarva is actually better, currently, with bow than with sword; and would be noticably better yet if she were using her magic bow.  And certainly agrees about the 'feeling safer' part.  However, Tarva is still one of the hardiest of the group (Ahb's 2 point advantage will disappear as soon as Tarva catches up to 9th level), and she still considers it her responsibility / duty / place to take the monsters on in melee, to keep them from reaching the range weapon and magic users -- given that, she's not about to ask for her bow back, or suggest that she join the ranks of the ranged weapon users.  But she's already contributed all that she thinks she can to this discussion, and someone with more than a brief bio reading of General Wick ought to be making sense of all these tactical elements and putting them all together in the best way(s) possible.

    Ahb, perhaps you should appoint Arvee our 'war chieftan' and let him come up with a few (five or less) basic tactical plans.  Then as an encouter starts (or before it if there's warning) he can call out (or whisper) a plan name and everyone will know what they're supposed to do.
    [And while it would be polite to have one of the plans involve turning some or all of us invisible, Arvee would have the option of never thinking that plan was the best one to use.]



Ahb answers Tarva's question about languages:
    Ahb would be very happy to teach you Gnomish, go over what Avree has told you in Dwarvish, help you with your Elven, and teach you some bits of Giant if you want.



To which Tarva says:
    Wonderful.  "Thank you."  (Which, said in Arvee-taught Dwarvish, actually comes out as "Eat tailings," a particularly nasty Dwarvish euphanism.  [Ahb can see that some immediate and urgent remedial instruction is called for.])
    Tarva is shocked, shocked, to discover that humor is going on in Arvee; and then starts grinning in much more than her usual impish intensity.  [Ahb may or may not notice that, around her own shock at some of the expressions coming out of Tarva's mouth...]
    And Tarva also thanks (in common) Ahb for being willing to teach her the basic rudiments of Gnomish; and will also practice Tarva's microscopic Elvish with her as well.  As for Giant: perhaps sometime in the future; these three languages are all she thinks she can assimilate just now.



Arvee back to Rowan:
You provoke an attack of opportunity by moving through a "threatened" square. Giants have reach, which means that while we normal humanoids hreaten the area one square around us, they threaten the area two squares.  So to get to where we can hit, we have to move through the square. If  you charge then there is no attack of opportunity, however, you must  charge in a straight line.



To which Taizu says:
But I would think being invisible changes that. They have to know you are in their reach to strike at you. Unless the GM just determines that there is a random bad luck factor to being caught by a backswing,



And Arvee counters:
Yes, but as far as I know, no one has a powerful enough invisibility that it will stay once they act, at which point, from what everyone else has said, they can't afford to stay in close combat with a good portion of the enemies we have seen lately. And as we have seen before, invisibility doesn't mask your sound or your smell, which means that you are no means undetectable



Rowan on Tarva's idea of Arvee as our warchief:
Arvee might also want to confer with Darred and Glendon to see if their military backgrounds could help in the planning (if he can be patient and deal with their Lawful natures long enough to talk with them, that is).



Ahb says:


Back to tactics again, Taizu says:
Taizu can take improved invisibility as one of his spells. He was truely flirting with Sculpt Sound and is very inclined to take it but can probably be convinced improved invisibility is much more practical. Although,with Scult Sound he can make another magic user croak like a frog thus preventing him/her from casting further spells. Also, there is something very appealing in having a whole grove of willows sing. (Deep sigh) But again, I can probably be convinced to be more practical.




Arvee says:
I will admit that being invisible worked for Taizu, but only Taizu and not for the group.

Here's why:
In the quarry, and I will admit that I was not there for the beginning, but I remember John saying at the end that there was a signal that was put up, a light or something, and they knew we were coming. So while you can say that your being invisible was directly responsible for characters not dying, it is more likely that our characters were whooped up on because we were all so seriously out of position because we were following the let the single invisible character get really far away. So yes, it was great, invisibility got you in a wonderful position, but then everyone else was out of position and Ahb and I, the slowest two members of the party, were the furthest from the battle. If you want to consider that one portion of the debacle made the debacle a success, then I can't help that.

At the keep, not only were the bad guys not at a time when they wanted to attack, neither were we. By going in and announcing your presence, you then ran back to the keep with every creature in the cave in tow. Sure, they had to go through a door in the wall to get to us, but they went through that door in the first round. Once again, we were way out of position. There was a possibility that going in as a party could have brought the same eventual battle, but there is also a possibility that we could have fought several smaller battles. I am sorry, but I do not feel that two characters getting a +2 was worth the situation being invisible caused.

Part of these chaotic situations maybe that Taizu is not the best character to scout, and maybe the two new characters, especially Jen's who is designed to be a scout, may be better. But if sending in Taizu invisible early has the mere result of putting our battles into extremely chaotic situations with Taizu in better position, then I'm pretty sure that the invisible thing does not work.